What do you think?

is it another step closer to making this country a socialist state?

or a brilliant policy that will improve businesses financial health?
(haha)

Discuss! 

I think something needs to be done to shake up the system.
Whether it works out, which will take a long time,
or it fails miserably to start- I'm just happy that health care in general
is being discussed. 

1000 PAGES 

Population control and free abortions. 

Having worked in medical for a few years I agree something MUST be done because our system is all but broken.
Also, having worked with Medicare for a few years as well, I'm not sure gov't regulated health care is going to be any better out of the gate.

I'm predicting another 15-20 years before we get it just right. 

I say mandatory for children, not so for adults. It has to be affordable before you can do that though. Shit, I pay $500/month for my wives health insurance. Friggin retarded for what I make. 

So we've got this guy here at work - he's a really religious Christian - ends all his phone calls with "God Bless" (from a govt office).
Anyway, he believes health care is a privilege, not a right.
Like Jesus. 

Do I have to pay for it? Outside of taxes
If yes, fuck that shit
If no, sign me the fuck up.

Will it force other health insurance companies to reduce their price?
I'm for it, even if I have to pay. 

Shit, I pay $500/month for my wives health insurance.

You need to lose some wives. Just have one. It'll be cheaper. 

We're never going to get it just right.
The idea that we might is naive.
No one has it just right.
Shit, they can't even make a hair style that we all agree on. 

Blook said:

So we've got this guy here at work - he's a really religious Christian - ends all his phone calls with "God Bless" (from a govt office).
Anyway, he believes health care is a privilege, not a right.
Like Jesus.

You'd think true Christians would believe Jesus was a right. 

R AN s O ME said:

We're never going to get it just right.
The idea that we might is naive.
No one has it just right.
Shit, they can't even make a hair style that we all agree on.

And yet other "less civilized" countries have national health care in place. 

Fuck you GhostKitty.
You fucking asshole. 

What? 

Way to harsh the mellow. 

I thought we were discussing.
I was discussing.
Were we kidding? 

R AN s O ME said:

We're never going to get it just right.
The idea that we might is naive.
No one has it just right.
Shit, they can't even make a hair style that we all agree on.

I agree with Ransome.
In theory it's an awesome idea, in practice it's going to fall apart. 

And yet other "less civilized" countries have national health care in place.

This might be one reason why any sort of universal healthcare is savaged so viciously.

To admit that it's the way to go means the US has been lagging behind the rest the western world. 

just don't get sick. problem solved. 

HAHA VOLSH AGREES WITH ME.
Yeah we may get national healthcare but it won't be just right.
Other countries with national healthcare still have tons of flaws within the system. 

tax for free healthcare!

I'm for it.

But how will you cut down the abusers?

I already have enough clients going to the doc for every little sneeze 

Those models have shown that it's not a perfect system. A better system, probably, but there will always be problems. 

Other countries with national healthcare still have tons of flaws within the system.

In a sense that is why I am for it
I'd rather everyone covered poorly
then just a few covered excessively

But how will you cut down the abusers?

Piss in their nyquil 

R AN s O ME said:

HAHA VOLSH AGREES WITH ME.
Yeah we may get national healthcare but it won't be just right.
Other countries with national healthcare still have tons of flaws within the system.

In Canada, if you break your leg,
Do you still go bankrupt for the hospital to put you back together? 

OMG! RANSOME LET'S FORM A COALITION TOGETHER! 

GhostKitty said:

In Canada, if you break your leg,
Do you still go bankrupt for the hospital to put you back together?

Probably not, but remember procedures are up to their discretion. If you need surgery because it doesn't heal properly you're probably going to be waiting awhile because that's not really a priority. 

From what I understand it would depend on how urgent it is, given the circumstances, as all cases are different and need to be evaluated in different ways.

Also, I think we should get some links in here, or something, if we really want to do this.

Just going off of the first 25 posts or so, it's clear that a lot of you are more than a little confused about the health care reform plan thus far. 

Would you care to give us a synopsis then? 

All the arguments I've seen against universal care in the states are either people screaming 'socialism', complaining about the way their tax dollars are spend, or they're going on about how the government is inept at doing anything.

Anyone who screams 'socialism!' is obviously ignorant of the amount of government intervention already occurring and has no argument beyond the fact they simply despise their fellow citizens for some reason they're won't give out due to their own cowardice.

I paid almost as much in taxes total as some Fazers spend on health insurance alone; my universal health care might be a little slow, but it's not going to be pulled out from under me without notice, and it's conditions for provision cannot be changed. I view it like the rest of the social safety net my taxes pay for: I'll be there if I need it, and hopefully I'll never need it.

Those of us who live in countries with universal heath care are not living like communists, we're not told what level of care the state will decide according to our abilities, and we're certainly not the type to get horribly stressed out from being forced to decide between our health and our financial well-being. Just let it happen, make it work, and you won't even notice it's there. Until you need it. 

The only sensible solution is to kill the fatties. 

/grabs pitchfork 

[quote=Volshebnik]procedures are up to their discretion[quote]
Yeah, you might have to wait in line behind someone with a bullet wound or a heart attack. One might have a problem with that, but only if you're the type to go haywire over having to wait more than 5 minutes at McDonalds. 

Really? Some of my Canadian friend have told me different stories. They might actually need to use their health care on a regular basis though. 

GhostKitty said:

Would you care to give us a synopsis then?

First and foremost, the plan isn't to "nationalize healthcare."

This would imply that all health care would come from the government.

The plan so far is to create a national form of health care to compete with
the private form of health care. So far the argument isn't because it will
drive prices down, but rather offer an affordable alternative to the increasing
costs of (private) health care in America. The idea is that people without
insurance now, or who can not afford the insurance they have, will be able
to get new insurance that they can afford.

That's a pretty brief and general overview. A lot of the disagreement comes
from specific points in the plan, like where to get the money from, or whether
it should be mandatory to be insured or not. 

I think it's a great idea in theory, and I really want something like this, but my worry is that employers will stop offering insurance benefits because of the creation of this program. Has there been a guideline placed on doing that? 

I'm going to tell you like Wu told me.
Cash rules everything around me. 

There is no reason for them to stop. There are no plans to tax business revenue,
and if an employer offers private insurance already then the only thing that should
happen is the price of coverage should drop, as now the private health care industry
will have to compete with the public industry. Unless your insurance company, for
some reason, goes out of business, in which case the government is planning to offer
small business plans to cover employees of small businesses. I can't say about larger
business, but I would assume they could get public coverage, as well, if they desired.

I expect that government institutions, should this be passed, will offer health care packages through it. 

Volshebnik said:

Really? Some of my Canadian friend have told me different stories. They might actually need to use their health care on a regular basis though.

It ain't perfect, I won't claim it to be. Your millage also varies depending where you are because the federal gov't is not involved in heath care, other than to provide funding. It's a provincial concern, and certain provinces are occasionally run by people that are dipshits.

The one thing they can't do, is tell you do go fuck yourself because you don't have a brazillion dollars in your wallet, and then go dump you on a street corner in a gown. 

Volshebnik said:

A better system, probably, but there will always be problems.

It's NEVER gonna be perfect 

KNW said:

It ain't perfect, I won't claim it to be. Your millage also varies depending where you are because the federal gov't is not involved in heath care, other than to provide funding. It's a provincial concern, and certain provinces are occasionally run by people that are dipshits.

The one thing they can't do, is tell you do go fuck yourself because you don't have a brazillion dollars in your wallet, and then go dump you on a street corner in a gown.

The only real danger is sometimes the doctors go a bit overboard and you wake up with cybernetic arms on the operating table, because it was cheaper just to replace the whole thing than try to fix the all the fiddly bits in your elbow.

On the plus side, I can now open beer bottles at the speed of sound. 

fuck, i want cybernetic arms. 

Ya rly! 

Oh, I so totally wish that were true. 

wait. does this help the poor?
fuck it then. 

does this help the poor everybody?
fuck it then.

 

"Helping the poor" is just a thinly veiled euphemism for "Socialism."

NOT ON MY WATCH, LIBTARDS! 

NO4NRS 

Yeah, economic Darwinism all the way! Re-instate the Poll Tax, and restrict voting rights to male landowners! 

Not everybody deserves cybernetic arms. 

Hey, don't make them repeal that amendment that gives rights!